羽毛管虫“喂食”笔记

jsbach

个人观察记录，龟速补充~~
信息随便用 反正没有图喵喵喵~~~


嗯， 我一直非常喜欢所有的管虫（包括垃圾管虫），尤其是大旋腮虫 Sabellastarte magnifica  （大就是好！多就是美！）

由于我的缸是个20 gal类似论坛大牛藻缸配置的缸(换句话说，cmf底线。。。。)，一直不确定能养好。。。

读了James W. Fatherree 那篇文章（http://www.saltcorner.com/Articles/Showarticle.php?articleID=53）， 提到的几个重点是
1 如果要喂，记得从背面缓慢喂
2 很多羽毛管虫形似但不同种 （颜色不一定是可靠分类标准），有的必须要活食（比如小球藻），有的残渣即可
3 管虫滤食效率在滤食生物中排前几名，基本上是鱼缸中最后饿死的生物

没有提的是
1 怎么算养活？
2 怎么算确定喂饱？

那么该怎么办呢，如果不能直接观察喂食效果（滤食生物大概只能抓出来解刨），就看间接效果。。。。

1 排便
2 长期饲养前提下的繁殖

嗯，先说一下 这个笔记
1 基本是二手信息或者孤证（我只有一只喵喵喵） 可靠性-1
2 没有阴性对照  可靠性-2

所以看着玩吧

这两个搜集资料的时候都发现有人做到了（来源找不到了喵）
1 有人用DT的活小球藻喂（土豪啊，这货3盎司9刀外加50刀运费），观察到 十几分钟后棕色棒状便便排出
2 有人长期用DT的活小球藻喂(....),观察到 1 “冒烟”式排卵 2 排卵后脱冠（据说是为了防止把自己baby吃掉）3 缸中小管虫biubiubiu的长出来
   搜 Feather dusters （嗯，管虫商品名是。。。鸡毛掸子。。。。）+ smoking 能搜出来

然后是个人经验
缸中三次试图用天然海水引入浮游植物，不知道成功没。。。。

1 一开始管虫放在水流缓慢区，每次刮缸壁褐藻半个小时后，短粗棕色棒状便便排出
2 现在管虫放在水流持续从背面流动区  细长棕色棒状便便排出（大概2-3次一天）
3 有一次放到了快速水流区，触须变得卷曲，之前好像有人问余溪大大类似问题
4 现在管虫状况不好，有生物半夜咬触须，还没抓到。。。。。。

______________________________________  分割线 -------------------------

翻译的文章 在9L  http://www.cmfish.com/bbs/forum. ... &fromuid=219423

开缸大概半年，过去一个月开始喂活小球藻 羽冠在一个月内增大了大概1.5厘米
三月末观察到管虫产卵  但是别人说的产卵后脱冠没有发生

sdai2003

小球藻很好培养的，我天天用来培养轮虫的。很简单

清风茧缕

就我自己的个人经历来说，硬管和软管虽然属于滤食生物，确实需要一定程度上依靠喂食。但是它们的食量相比海缸中一些需要喂的LPS还是属于不那么大的。比如圆帽、茉莉等等。我的缸可以满足圆帽、茉莉的食量，所以自然也能满足管虫的食量。当然，如果有些朋友的缸不怎么喂，那么可能不管是圆帽还是管虫都要饿坏。我并没有刻意去照顾管虫，只是在平时喂圆帽之余，用喂食管从背部喂管虫。

清风茧缕

至于喂什么，我想我管虫要感谢圆帽。因为我也是为了喂圆帽而丰富了食谱，管虫当然也能从中得益。我主要的喂食以以下几种为主：

清风茧缕

直径20μm以下的微藻+肉眼可见的粉末珊瑚粮（荤+素）+牡蛎卵

清风茧缕

我为了圆帽，努力让食物的尺寸做到从20μm到400μm的全覆盖，荤素也都有，所以圆帽吃的很开心。喂圆帽最后剩下的一点点我会喂管虫。总之在我缸里，管虫能长期生存（3年以上），我想这样肯定算是养定了吧……至于DT的食物，国内好像买不到，我也没什么渠道能从国外买，所以从来没用过~

清风茧缕

如果说这样饲养有什么问题，一是喂食肯定是比较坏水的，要考验个人维持水质的能力。其次就是比较贵，一个月的喂食费用完全可以让我买一个新圆帽了哈哈哈哈

清风茧缕

我给你置顶~希望你继续更新哦~别偷懒~

jsbach

清风茧缕 发表于 2018-10-27 22:38
我给你置顶~希望你继续更新哦~别偷懒~

谢谢余溪大大！
大大缸里的脑好幸福啊~~~~
而且大大的管虫肯定养定了，我看到论坛上讨论没养定的一般撑不过六个月~~~

我把James W. Fatherree 那篇 （http://www.saltcorner.com/Articles/Showarticle.php?articleID=53） 大概翻译了一下， 慢慢发吧：
Tube worms are just that - a variety of marine worms that live in tubes. Most of them belong to one of two large groups, which are called sabellids and serpulids, and some specimens from each of these groups can be found regularly in aquarium shops. However, as neat looking and interesting as they are, they are definitely not for everyone.
管虫就是住在管中的海生蠕虫。大部分可以归到两类 sabellids （缨腮虫，比如羽毛管虫） 和 serpulids （龙介虫，比如圣诞管虫）两种都常在水族店买到。但是尽管他们有趣又好看，并不是所有的人（缸）都适合
The sabellid worms form a tube made of a tough but flexible material, which is sometimes coated with a layer of detritus, mud, sand, and/or small shell fragments, while the serpulids build rock-hard tubes made of calcium carbonate. Many of the "hard-tube" serpulids also produce a small plug or door-like structure, called an operculum, that they can use to seal themselves inside their tube, while the "soft-tube" sabellids do not. There are a few exceptions, but these are the general characteristics.
Sabellids会制造一个柔韧的软管，表面常覆盖残渣，沉淀，泥垢，沙，碎贝壳。Serpulids会制造硬如岩石的碳酸钙管，硬管serpulids常制造一个“门”状结构，特称operculum（鳃盖），可用于躲进管中时堵住管口（译注：没见过？请复习余溪大大的共生那篇文章）
All of these worms also have specialized structures called crowns, which are extended from the tubes to collect food particles and for gas exchange. They act like a sieve and a gill at the same time. The typically circular-shaped crowns are made up of many branches called radioles, and the radioles themselves are covered by tiny hair-like branches. Thus, many look like some sort of small fan or feather duster.
管虫有称为“冠”的结构，用于过滤和气体交换（呼吸）， 所以同时有筛子和腮的功能。冠是由一系列放射线触手radioles 组成的圆形结构，触手上有毛发状分支。所以外表看起来像羽扇或鸡毛掸子
As I said, the crowns capture food, and how they do it is quite interesting. The lower surface of each radiole is covered by tiny hair-like cilia that rhythmically move in such a way as to create water currents which move from the underside of the crown, upwards through the radioles, and away from the worm. Conversely, the upper side of each radiole has a series of grooves running down the middle from the tips to the center of the crown. So, the neat part is that when the bottom to top current is produced, small particles in the water are caught in eddies created on the upper side of the radioles and are caught and moved to the worm's mouth by more cilia the grooves. The cilia/grooves also sort the particles before sending them to the mouth, and any particles that are made of the wrong stuff, are too big, or are too small are rejected.
如前所述，冠用于捕食。其底部表面覆盖规律性同向移动的纤毛cilia， 促使水流由触手radioles底部流向头部，最终流出冠区。相反的，触手radioles上部有一系列谷状结构通向冠中心。由此，当从下向上的水流产生后，细小颗粒会陷入上部触手产生的小涡流中，之后会被触手捕捉，由谷状结构上的纤毛送进口中。谷状结构上的纤毛还负责在入口前对颗粒筛选，材质不对的，过大的，过小的都会被排走
In addition, as they grow they tend to prefer different particle sizes. Very young, small worms have very small crowns/radioles/grooves and therefore prefer to capture and eat very small particles, like bacteria and single-celled phytoplankton. Conversely, big adult worms have bigger crowns/radioles/grooves and may feed exclusively on much, much larger multi-cellular zooplankton (still pretty small stuff, really). And, as you can guess, the preferred food size can depend on what maximum size an adult achieves. Tube worms can be very picky eaters!
当管虫成长时会要求不同的食物，年轻的小管虫 的冠/触手/谷太小，需要细菌和单细胞藻类。成年管虫 偏好多细胞浮游动物。所以管虫实际上十分挑食，偏好的食物大小取决于个体大小
Some Common Types: So, let's take a look at some of the common types of tube worms. There are lots and lots of little oddballs that show up in stores here and there, and many, many others that hitchhike on corals and live rock, but these are the four "regulars" you'll most often see for sale.
现在介绍常见管虫。海边常见各类奇型种，也作为常搭客活石，但商店中作为商品的常见种如下
Feather dusters:鸡毛掸子/光缨虫
There are several relatively large sabellid tube worms called feather dusters, but Sabellastarte magnifica and spectabilis are the most common. They look so much alike that you can't ID them without removing one from its tube, but if you really want to know what you have the easy way to find out is to ask where it came from. S. magnifica is collected in the Caribbean, while S. spectabilis comes from the Indo-Pacific.
几种大型sabellids 缨腮虫被并称为此，但大羽毛管虫 Sabellastarte magnifica和粗壯光纓蟲/华丽光纓蟲 Sabellastarte spectabilis最为常见。 他们太相似，以至于不从管中拿出来无法分类。但是可以通过产地区分，大羽毛管虫 Sabellastarte magnifica 来自加勒比，粗壯光纓蟲/华丽光纓蟲 Sabellastarte spectabilis 来自印度洋-太平洋区
These two species' tubes may be 8 inches long and the worms have impressive crowns that are often 3 or 4 inches in diameter and nicely colored. Also note that the tubes are coated with mud/detritus particles, but not sand or other larger particles. These are indeed the most commonly offered tube worms by far and you will see them regularly at stores. This does not mean they are inherently hardy though, as they still require very fine foods despite their size.
这两种都能到达20cm/8inch长，冠直径可达7-10cm/3-4inch。 他们的管附有泥/沉积物，但不会有沙或大颗粒。他们在商店中很常见，但不是那种很“坚强”的物种，要求细小的食物。
Cluster dusters 簇生管虫:
Cluster dusters, primarily the Caribbean Bispira brunnea, are much smaller sabellids. They have soft tubes that are typically only a couple of inches long at most, and their crowns may be less than a half-inch in diameter when full-grown. But, they are very attractive nonetheless, and typically come in tightly spaced clumps made up of numerous individuals.
簇生管虫（主要是加勒比簇生管虫Caribbean Bispira brunnea）是小型sabellids。 他们通常最多长到几英寸（《10cm）冠通常小于0.5inch（1.3cm）通常由众多个体紧密聚居
Oddly enough, these worms can reproduce asexually (as can many others), and if conditions are optimal they may increase their numbers rapidly. But, in most cases they are rather difficult to keep alive long-term at all, so hoping for them to spread may be overly optimistic for most hobbyists.
这些管虫能无性繁殖。在适宜环境下可迅速增长。但是很多情况下长期饲养仍然困难。所以在人工环境下大量繁殖的还是很难 （译注：别的论坛结论是细菌团足够喂了）

Christmas trees worms:圣诞管虫
The serpulid Christmas tree worms, Spirobranchus spp., are quite unusual in that you're likely to only see them living in colonies of stony corals. And when I say "in" I mean they settle on corals when they are larvae and then their hard tubes are actually covered over by coral skeleton as the coral grows. Thus, the worm's tube becomes integrated with the coral. They really do live in the coral colony, which is most often Porites.
圣诞管虫通常只能在活珊瑚中看到。“中”是字面意思，他们在幼体时定居在珊瑚上，之后被珊瑚骨架覆盖，完全处于珊瑚内部。他们常选择滨珊瑚/脑珊瑚Porites
Their tubes, which typically coil in spirals, can be 3 inches or so in total length, and their unique crowns can be close to an inch at full size. I say these are unique because they spiral upwards from a wide base to a small tip in a corkscrew fashion, and are found in distinct pairs extended from the tube. Unlike the typical feather duster look, these crowns really look like two small trees, and come in all sorts of bright colors and neat patterns.
他们的管是螺旋形的，常有3inch/7cm长，冠接近1inch/2.5 cm。颜色鲜亮的冠呈独特的顺时针螺旋型，成对分布。
These used to be very common back in the "old days" when non-aquacultured Florida live rock was available, as they were often present on pieces of "wild" rock. But, now you can't get that type of rock and pretty much have to buy a coral to get the worms (which are coming from the Indo-Pacific). Thus, you'll have to make sure you can care for the worms properly - and the living coral, too. These are therefore suitable for reef-aquariums only!
在过去佛罗里达活石还能买到的时候这些管虫很易获得。但是现在带珊瑚的佛罗里达活石已经不在出售了。现在只能通过买印度洋-太平洋珊瑚才能得到他们。一定记得他们必须被饲养在礁岩缸里
（译注：cmf无脊椎区有个大大养得很好，可以去问他经验）
Cocoa worms: 大硬管管虫
The Indo-Pacific serpulid cocoa worm, Protula bispiralis, which is also often called the "hard-tube worm", is another big and beautiful tube worm. These may have a tube that is over a foot long and an inch in diameter, and they also have two typically brightly-colored crowns. The crowns are also tiered, and look more like those of the Christmas tree worms than the sabellid feather and cluster dusters.
印度洋-太平洋serpulid 大硬管管虫是另外一种大型管虫，管可长达1英尺/30cm，直径达到1 inch/2.5cm。常具双头鲜明颜色的冠。 冠类似圣诞管虫，层列状分布
They are seen with some regularity in stores, but unfortunately they are probably the least likely to survive for long. Again, despite their larger size, they'll require fine foods that are typically in short supply in most aquariums. Even in well-maintained reef aquariums these worms infrequently live more than a few months.
尽管在商店中易得，他们是最难饲养的管虫之一。他们需要大量细小食物，即使在稳定礁岩体系中也常在几个月后饿死
Some Common Issues: Let's also go over a couple of things you'll need to take care of and problems that tube worms sometimes have.
现在是常见饲养问题
                                待续。。。。。。。。。。。

jsbach

Not staying put:
Tube worms will not care for being rolled around on the bottom of an aquarium by currents, or just lying flat on the sand as it can prevent them from feeding. Instead, they should be placed in the rockwork where they will stay put, should be glued to a substrate, or should have part of their tube buried in sediments to hold them in place.
不要就让管虫平躺在沙上，被水流冲击位移。粘在岩石/基质上，也可以试着埋一部分身体在沉积物中 （译注： 为什么不直接说沙子？）
If placing a large tube worm in a crack or crevice in rockwork, be sure that you do not crimp, pinch, or bend the tube to make it stay put. This will surely make the tube's inhabitant unhappy. Depending on it's size, you'll also need to keep at least an inch or two of the tube sticking out to make sure the worm can fully extend its crown without having it in direct contact with the rock. Remember they move water from the bottom up and probably won't like having the bottom-side of their crown cramped in between some rocks.
管不要弯折。位置应该保证有足够的空间让冠完全展开。由于滤食水流是由下向上，冠基部要处于开放区
Clusters of worms can also be glued to rock or shells by using some gel-type superglue. Clusters can be turned over, dabbed with glue, and then stuck wherever you like. The glue will set/stick, even underwater. Just be sure that you do not accidentally glue the worms shut in their tubes, or glue them to your fingers!
需要粘的话一般的粘珊瑚的胶状胶水就可以（后面是常见的注意事项。。）
Lastly, if you have a deep enough sand/gravel bed you can try burying the tube, while leaving some of it sticking out. Again, depending on the worm's size, you'll need to leave plenty of tube out so that the worm can fully extend its crown.
埋在沙床中的注意事项和粘在岩石上是一样的（保留开放区域）
Bailing out: 脱管
It isn't common, but every once in a while some tube worms may decide to crawl out of their tube and do a little adventure traveling. However, you should not try to shove a worm back into its tube if this happens, as you will be putting it back where it obviously didn't want to be, and likely kill it in the process. Keep in mind that a worm is basically a soft, unprotected meal at such times, so if one decides to leave its home there must be a reason. Possibilities range from unfavorable currents that prevent it from capturing food to being nibbled at by some small predator. The good news is that if nothing eats them, they can sometimes find a location where they are happier and can build a new tube. So, as bad as it may look, the best thing to do is leave them alone.
尽管不常见，偶尔管虫会爬出管子。切勿把他们塞回去。管虫在这个状况下极易受伤。它如果需要脱管，原环境一定是不能容忍了。 通常是由于不适当的水流导致饥饿，或者被捕食者骚扰。如果他们能安全到达合适地点，他们会分泌出新的管子。此时不要干涉他们
Loosing the crown: 脱冠
On occasion a tube worm will decide to dump its crown. Yes, the whole thing. The entire crown just comes loose and you'll find it sitting on the bottom somewhere nearby. This would seem to be a sure sign of death, but amazingly enough, they can grow them back. So don't pull out the tube! It may take a couple of weeks, but typically the crown will grow back. The new crown may be significantly smaller than before, though.
管虫也会把整个冠部脱落。这不是死亡的信号，通常几周内就会长回来。新冠一开始会比原来的小
I don't know of any "proven" reason they do this, although it has been suggested that it is a sign of starvation and/or water quality problems. Those two things get the blame for most anything anyway. It is likely a bad omen if a worm does this repeatedly, and of course, there are times when the worm doesn't extend its crown because it is actually dead, too. But, you'll likely see nothing of the worm at all instead of finding the separated crown in such cases.
脱冠原因还未被证实，可能的原因包括饥饿和水质问题。但是基本缸里的大部分问题都归结到这两条。如果重复脱冠，问题就严重了
Being eaten:被吃
Yes, tube worms are part of the menu for some other animals. So, if you think you want the worms, better make sure that you take care of any incompatibility issues. Many sorts of butterfly fishes will eat them, as will a number of wrasses, and the flame hawkfish (Neocirrhites armatus) likes 'em, too. Then there are a number of crabs that will tear them up, and even some serpent stars will make a meal of them, as well. Fortunately, almost all butterflies, many wrasses, and the vast majority of crabs are not considered to be welcome in reef-type aquariums anyway, but you do need to be particularly wary of the hawks and serpents, as they are commonly keep in such tanks.
部分仙和隆头鱼会吃管虫，火焰仙也可能吃。蟹和蛇海星也会吃管虫 （译注：我也怀疑我的管虫是被蛇海星吃的，卖鱼的老头免费送了我一堆蛇海星，然后管虫就开始断须了，但是半夜查过几次还没有直接看到过）
Starving to death:饿死
Well, this should be an obvious one by this point. These worms eat relatively tiny foods and most aquariums simply cannot support them. If you have a reef aquarium with a deep sand/mud bed or some sort of refugium set-up you may be fine, but for most aquarists there is no sure-fire way to keep these worms alive. Even using high-quality "plankton in a bottle" may not work at all.
这个问题很直接，很多缸提供不了管虫需要的细小事物。理想情况是有藻缸或者没有藻缸但是主缸有沙/泥床。有时商品浮游植物都不管用
As mentioned, these different types of worms can be exceptionally picky about what they eat, therefore one type may absolutely love one food product while the same stuff may do absolutely nothing for another type of worm. Some (especially the smaller ones that eat the tiniest foods) may reproduce prolifically in reef aquariums when fed nothing at all, while others will slowly starve even if given a bath in food. Thus, you may try several different types of worms and have great success with some and no success with others. Unfortunately, in most any case it will be trial and error, unless you are able to provide an adequate supply of a wide range of food sizes - and that isn't easy. So, if you aren't ready to do this one way or another, I strongly suggest you leave all of these worms alone.
如前所述，有些管虫极为挑食。有些管虫能吃的其他种类可能根本不吃。小管虫可能不用管就能在缸里大量繁殖，另一些如果不是喜欢的食物，泡在里面都会饿死。不幸的是，现在能做的只有不断尝试，扩大食物大小范围 （译注：成功例子看上面余溪大大的回帖）
As a last note about these worms and food, do remember that they create currents that carry food from the underside of the crown/radioles to the upper side. So, if you choose to target feed a worm using a syringe full of plankton, don't squirt it at the worm from the top. It won't work! Instead, you can gently squirt such foods towards a worm from the side in such a way that the worm can direct particles upwards through the radioles in the proper manner.
记得水流是从下往上流，喂食的话用注射器从背面慢喂
Some shopping tips: If you do have a system that employs a well-stocked deep substrate bed and/or you use specialty foods for filter-feeders and want to try a tube worm, or a few, you still need to be careful when shopping. Choosing the best specimens is always a good way to improve your chances for success.
购买时注意:
When you go shopping, the most obvious thing to look for is a worm(s) with a fully-extended crown. If it is only partially extended for the tube, or not "fanned out", the worm may be in poor health. If it is well-extended you need to give it a good looking over for any missing radioles or any other apparent damage that looks like it might lead to troubles.
购买时一定要确定冠能全开，这是健康的标志。全开的冠还有助于确认有没有损伤
You should also try to test an apparently healthy worm, just to make sure. These worms have eyes of various complexity here and there, and they are also very sensitive to touch. Thus, they should respond to a shadow passing overhead and/or a light touch by quickly retreating to safety in their tube. So, if they are out and you wave your hand (or something else) just over them and block the light, or give them a light touch on the crown, they should jerk into their tube. If they don't, there may be trouble.
管虫有感光点，而且碰触敏感。健康的管虫当有阴影突然覆盖或者被碰触的的时候应该会立刻缩回去，做不到的可能有健康问题
Speaking of the tube, take a good look at it, too. Many worms with soft tubes may have some damage which can be repaired without too much trouble, but if their tube is torn up badly the worm inside may have unseen injuries from whatever event tore up the tube. The same goes for worms with hard tubes, and they can take much, much longer to repair a damaged tube, as well. So, it is really better to just choose a different specimen if you see such damage.
软管虫的管壁破损不是严重问题，会自然修复。只要管子没有明显折过的痕迹就好.硬管虫的管壁破损是问题，因为修复期漫长
Lastly, as is the case with most things marine, try to keep a chosen specimen submerged from tank to tank. They have void space in their tube and when they are lifted out of water the tube fills with air. Then, when re-submerged some air bubbles may be trapped in the tube, which can create problems.
购买时还要注意管中不要被空气充满，有些管虫会被困住
That's about it. Again, I must stress that if you are not prepared to make sure they are getting enough of the appropriate food, leave them alone. However, if you will do what it takes - enjoy.
Good References: 参考文献：
Fossa, S. and A. Nilsen. 2000. The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium, Volume 3. Birgit Schmettkamp Velag, Bornheim, Germany. 448 pp.
Fox, R. 2001. Invertebrate Zoology Online: http://www.lander.edu/rsfox/310labindex.html
Rupert, E. and R. Barnes. 1994. Invertebrate Zoology, 6th ed. Saunders College Publishing, Fort Worth, TX. 1140 pp.
Sprung, J. 2002. Featherdusters in the Aquarium. Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine: http://www.advancedaquarist.com - August issue.

jsbach

Bob Goemans写了一篇类似的，没什么新内容

慢慢整理一些reef2reef之类论坛的帖子吧
话说有次看到两个老外吵怎么喂吵了两页，然后两个人才发现一个说的是硬管一个说的是软管。。。。。。。。。。。。。。

jikaishihuaidan

我缸里管虫没喂过，珊瑚也没喂过，观察到硬管虫经常排出一连串的小长条状的颗粒，这是吃饱了的现象吗。。。。另外，软管虫没发现有这个现象。。。。。

jikaishihuaidan

软管虫的位置正好在蓝吊睡觉的洞口附近。今天发现，蓝吊可能嫌管虫开了后遮挡洞口，一口就咬下一根管虫的触手。。。

jsbach

jikaishihuaidan 发表于 2018-11-1 11:05
软管虫的位置正好在蓝吊睡觉的洞口附近。今天发现，蓝吊可能嫌管虫开了后遮挡洞口，一口就咬下一根管虫的触 ...

不过软管触手恢复速度很快，我觉得新触手一星期就能长1厘米

Shgsma

学习了！

鱼强大咖

大神，这是管虫吗？我用喂食管一吹，它们就都缩回去了，还长了很多。以前没有，这些天才感觉冒出来的。

鱼强大咖

jsbach 发表于 2018-10-28 11:57
Not staying put:
Tube worms will not care for being rolled around on the bottom of an aquarium by c ...

谢谢！

jsbach

鱼强大咖 发表于 2018-11-8 23:20
谢谢！

我觉得是啊！
好漂亮，羡慕！

jsbach

鱼强大咖 发表于 2018-11-8 19:56
大神，这是管虫吗？我用喂食管一吹，它们就都缩回去了，还长了很多。以前没有，这些天才感觉冒出来的。

我发现管虫对正面水流很敏感，反应是先缩起来观望
你是不是正面喷上去了？

jsbach

在等用户级升上去好更新，，，，，